"I've read both books I and II. Like everyone else I thought it was ridiculous and manipulative. I realized I was skeptical because I didn't want to find out that what Sherrie and Ellen wrote was the truth! What about you why are so you skeptical?? Could it be you're afraid to find out the truth?? It wasn't til I actually started DOING The Rules (as with anything, don't knock it til you try it) that this book is really about helping a woman get what she feels she truly deserves. All I have to say is I feel sorry for all those anti-Rules women out there: You're self-esteem must be pretty low and have no confidence to believe that the man you are dating will deliver, and you have to resort to "being upfront" (aka "demand") what you need, not to mention settling for less because you are too afraid to be alone for awhile." A reader from the Midwest

This quote keeps lingering at me. For one thing, I'm profoundly disturbed that she doesn't think any guy will "deliver" and that saying what you want is a bad thing. Plus she claims it's a low self-esteem thing, which just seems all off...But yes, she does have a point about "don't knock it until you try it."

Thing is, the idea of "trying it" makes me so sick that I just can't.

About a week or so ago, I finally found that the Rules boards were operational. So instead of continuing where I was planning to go, I figured I should read the boards and get some viewpoints from those who do try it (and apparently love it).

My overall impression of the boards is mixed. Like The Rules themselves, there are some things that seem really sensible and practical. I was surprised that about half of what I read sounded like fairly reasonable advice. Which reiterates part of my point of The Rules- some of it is okay.

However, the Rules Girls do not allow for you to only follow SOME of the Rules. No, you must follow every single one TO THE LETTER (what they call "bootcamp"- according to one of the boards, bootcampers are often even stricter than the books say to be), or else be miserable. Often I found someone saying "You were right, girls! I have to toe the line now and do EVERYTHING they say!" Which just worries me, as it does when I find anyone having blind devotion to anything. The RG's even attack each other for failure at times.

"What rule didn't you break? In all honesty, one day you will get to a point that it will hurt so much, that you will give up your wicked ways, and do the Rules "as they are written"." -TaTa

Wicked ways???

I can't believe she even said that!
I suspect that The Rules somehow (even in a way the authors didn't mean) encourages people to go "over the top" in how they follow the teachings. I found this one just scary:

"EEEEK!!!
My boyfriend just told me that he sometimes FALLS ASLEEP WHILE DRIVING!!!!!!
I know we're not supposed to tell men what to do, but this is life-threatening! If anyone has any suggestions, please, please..." -shakinglikemilk

To be honest, I don't believe in telling men what to do, but there are certain exceptions, and this woman apparently has lost that distinction! If it's life and death, then FOR GOD'S SAKE SAY SOMETHING! Even strangers on the road seeing this guy asleep at the wheel could say something, but his girlfriend can't?
The other RG's quickly corrected this (thank God), but the fact that she feels she can't tell him to pull over when tired WORRIES me.

I'm not going to even reprint the post in which a woman put in all caps seven times "DON'T CALL HIM!" and that not calling the guy is the most fundamental action of a RG.

On the boards, passivity is adored. One woman made a remark that the universe should bring them good when they don't do anything. I'm curious to find out if this works for her getting jobs and promotions and whatnot, just sitting around waiting for magic. And of course, this one that just plays into the whole prince-will-come stereotype. No woman can slay their own dragons, still.

"men love to be superheroes and slay those dragons for an appreciative damsel in distress, if they like her and she's their type!" -Joy-Rose

They really do believe that the world is still just like it was in the olden days, and that they are dream women for all males. Or so I get this impression. Yes, I can read the quote below and see that, but I don't necessarily think that The Rules are the only way to get someone like this.

"But if you asked a guy to describe the behavior of his dream girl it would be exactly what the rules are. Essentially: Be a CUAO, be feminine, don't call to much, don't bitch, don't tell him what to do, in general be sweet, appreciative, and easy to be with. The right guy will treat his dream girl like gold. Guys like the results of the rules, they just don't need to know that they are "rules". Too confusing for the male mind! (ha ha!)" -Sammy

And wouldn't you know, turns out I was right!

"I think that doing the rules is like training a dog - only harder. Men have been influenced by people especially women long before they met us, so it is like house training a fully grown dog." -poofter

Moving on, I found out the answer to the "What if he's shy?" question from a few weeks ago.

"What about shy men who have a hard time approaching women?" -Ichocolat
"The basis of The Rules (TRs) is for women to get involved with only men who ARE motivated enough to do this step." -Tex
"Men are NOT shy. If they see a woman they REALLY want, they WILL pursue." -beguiled

I'm a bit embarrassed to say that these were the nicest remarks on this subject I found on the boards.

This leads into the most reviled form of mankind, according to the RG's.

"Rule Guys: men who are confident enough to pursue, express strong interest in a relationship, and never complain about your independent spirit!
Moonpies (homo lunas): Insecure men who do not have the confidence (or a clue) to carry out a full fledged pursuit of a CUAO. They flirt but have no follow-through. Have plenty of words, but no action."

"A great guy at first, then after you start all the calling, he can easily turn into, a moonpie that says, you're such a nice girl why don't you take me out for my b-day or dinner was great, let's split the check! Then he proceeds to pull out a calculator to see what your EXACT total is for the meal." -Alexsis

"I would NEXT a guy who said "the ball is in your court." What he wants is the 50/50 deal but if you say fair is fair, okay, what usually happens is that 50/50 becomes 60/40 and then 70/30 .... with you doing 100% of the giving eventually and him doing zippo! Of course, that would never happen to a Rules Girl. The way I look at it is that a relationship is like couples dancing. For a dance to look elegant and beautiful, and for both partners to have a good time, the man must take the lead. Otherwise, everyone trips over their feet!
Moonpies are ALWAYS men who resent having to pursue women -- who feel it's unjust or unfair. ie,
"Why can't you come over to MY neighborhood?"
"Why can't you pay half the bill?"
"Why can't you call me half the time -- or ask me out?"
The whole concept of cherishing a woman is foreign to most moonpies. It's more like some maoist regime -- where men and women are presumed interchangeable." -lorelei

What is so bad about taking responsibility for part of your relationship?? Is it that horrid to go Dutch? Can't a guy ever want to be flattered with attention?

Once again, THE MAN MUST BE IN CHARGE. No feminists here!

"I just feel for the guys who are on the receiving end of some obnoxious (that's being generous and assuming they're not intentionally hurtful, which I doubt) "rules" behaviors.
Examples (they apply to women in supposedly loving and established relationships, not so much during the early dating games): not returning phone calls; canceling dates for punishment; trying to make their mates jealous with other men; withholding sex (if they are not waiting until marriage); withholding affectionate gestures like poems or cards or warm words even after their mates say they want and need affection; withholding their time; expecting all of the above without being willing to give in return; being surprised when their stingy behavior is met with an equivocal proposal of marriage or small bauble; anything else overtly manipulative which serves the main purpose of feeding a woman's ego or causing a man to feel insecure." -Olive67

Yay Olive!

And once again, I'm finding their behavior to be damned rude. I found one post from a woman who found out her best friend (male) is in love with her. So she immediately stops treating him like a friend and does The Rules on him, no longer talks to him, etc. He (of course in RG land) licks it up like the dog he is, but her friends think she's treating him badly. Of course, the RG's say she's being perfect. One woman said as long as she's not being disrespectful, no problem- but well, doesn't this sound disrespectful?

Though I found one note of sanity- a LONG post from one woman who'd been having sex with her boyfriend for three years or so and was thinking of cutting him of so he'd propose. She told this to Sherrie, who said that was mean since they'd already been having sex and it would hurt the relationship. The woman then admitted she'd been manipulative. Hurrah!

As you can imagine, the RG's don't quit dating until formal engagement. But I was rolling my eyes at this one remark about it.

"If you are exclusive, you will be putting yourself in girlfriend hell, waiting for him to provide you with all your validation and basically waiting for him to call so you can be invited out. Why put all your eggs in one basket just so you can wait around?
The Technique of the Love Affair recommends you always have other male admirers around even after you are married (you just don't date them, but hubby will know if other men are lurking and coveting you and will be on his toes)." -cooljewel

I read the first part and thought "hmmm, aren't you always waiting around for some guy to call so you can be invited out anyway?" I read the second part (another book discussed on the boards that has about the same themes, apparently) and thought "You know, that just seems tacky to me." Come on, you don't really NEED a bunch of drooling guys under your window after a certain point...and frankly, I'd expect the husband to get annoyed.

Then I started reading things that just made me sad.

" In my first Rules Relationship the guy told me on the first date how much he liked chatty women, so I felt encouraged to reveal waaay too much of myself. Had I been more experienced, I would have made myself doubly mysterious, because this was what he REALLY wanted:o)" -Joy-Rose

"I recently screwed up with a guy I liked becuase I just thought I was so cool and gorgeous and independent that no matter WHAT I did he would love me--well I was wrong and I'm still stinging from that exerience." -Indiecoolqueen

"My guy of 2 months asked me how I felt about our relationship V-Day evening. I'm crazy about him and thought that sharing my real feelings with him would move things along. I immedately realized my mistake. This last week he has seemed much less interested. I MUST go back to Rules bootcamp and do major damage control. Concrete evidence of interest in them will just turn them away!" -megmcw

So far I've learned that in RG land:
1. Never believe what the guy tells you.
2. You are never wonderful enough in yourself to keep a guy unless you play games.
3. Never be truthful in how you feel.

Reading indiecoolqueen's alone just made me want to cry.

"BTW, CG has been wonderful thru these last two weeks and I know it's because it's a Rules relationship. I let him in a little bit about what was going on (very ill father, job loss, etc.), but I didn't dwell on it. He told me how much he admires my ability to bounce back from adversity and laugh. IF HE ONLY KNEW HOW MUCH TIME I SPEND ON THESE BOARDS TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT!!!" -BlondSicilian

She's had a horrendous time lately, and she has to pretend she's fine about it? And he LIKES that?

I don't think I like this guy.

One thing mentioned on the boards is duty dating- dating people you have no interest in just to up your prestige/get practice in/be more of a CUAO (using their terminology here). Which I've done a bunch of times and you've heard about my experiences. But I read this quote and started thinking:

" Men don't duty date. They either like a girl or they don't." -SAL

Why do women have to date men they don't like, and men don't have to date women they don't like? (For men who get confused when dating people like me who will go out with you but don't seem to care much... this is why). How come men can do what they want and women still can't?

Because they can still get women no matter what they do, I guess. And women can't, so therefore they must follow The Rules.

I found one board that is just the oddest and perhaps most disturbing of all. Here's the top of it:

Topic: WUMTHE The "Waiting Until Marriage To Have Emotions" Club
Well, we know to achieve waiting in the sexual area, we need areas or topics or things or actions that we stay away from so that we dont end up having sex when we dont want it. We preplan to not go there. Are there similar things we can plan to stay WUMTHE? To guard our hearts and not get emotionally entangled? All ideas welcomed: I want to learn how and I am guessing that there are others who might.
Not mention the M (marriage word) Not initiate a relationship talk Think yeah right buddy wheres the ring when he says mushy words. Refuse to talk about "our" future together without the ring.

Once again, I ask if this is even possible. And once again, it sounds to me like they're just going too far over what is naturally good for people to practice.

I'm going to leave you now with a woman who I think every RG needs to pay attention to:

"The only thing you will identify is how much effort he's prepared to put in, and what's his tolerance level. These are important things to know, but I doubt that TR would allow you to find out whether he's wonderful or not. The way we usually find out the real truth about the other person is when things get ugly, not when they are nice, cool, and distant. So I would say, if you want to know your man -- have a fight with him! The real deal breaker in every relationship is not the flowers, the birthday gifts, the "half way", and not even sex -- it is what happens when the going gets tough.
This is an illusion. You are already emotionally involved, and every post of yours indicates that! Wouldn't you be totally heartbroken if he left you now? He is the only person in the world that doesn't know that! Isn't it sad? I think it is. And hence my advice is very simple: quit playing games. Show him who you really are -- a loving and caring woman. Not an obsessive, paranoid woman -- but a loving and caring woman. This simple and natural thing -- this is what really irresistible, and not only for men, but for everyone. What's so hard to understand about the ancient "rule": treat others the way you want to be treated yourself. So... do you treat him the way you want him to treat you?" -Agrarian

Next week: The final chapter in this saga.